Is Mal a Bully?

[Solai]

It takes a lot to shock me when it comes to Firefly. I have listened to countless discussions, participated in numerous debates, read articles, interviews and books and overall consider myself something of an expert on the matter.

When Sean posited his view that he saw Mal as a "my way or the high way" style bully it gave me serious pause mostly because I had never encountered this view before. Mal is generally accepted as a broken, flawed anti-hero...but a bully?

What I would like to do here is not so much argue the point but to collect evidence to support Sean's case. When someone posts an example let's discuss it to determine if it helps or hurts the argument.

I rewatched Serenity and the Train Job with the express purpose of spotting instances of this behavior and I still had trouble finding many examples. The more I looked the more I saw Mal not being a bully though his actions or his inactions. For example:

1. Wouldn't someone who dealt with situations absolutely arm his ship?
2. Wouldn't a bully have authorized torture when interrogating the Fed?
3. On Whitefall when they are scoping the territory Jayne says, "Aren't you sure you don't want to piss yourself like you did with Badger?" Mal doesn't challenge him, snap or anything. He simply says, "Walk soft" "Don't kill anyone if you don't have to"
4. At the end of the show wouldn't a bully have stomped on Jayne's head when Jayne admitted that he would have turned on him if the money was good enough
5. Wouldn't a bully not have let Simon on his crew after the comparisons Simon made of Mal to the perfect alliance officer?

If you pay close attention even when Mal says he is going to do something he always go with what the group feels is right. He doesn't toss River and Simon out, he doesn't drive Inara off the ship.

I admit I may be blind to this, but I simply still don't see it.

[hansioux]

I think Mal wants to think he has become more like Badger. A bully, a crook a bad guy who doesn't care about the rest of the world since the world gave up on him and his cause, but Badger can still smell his sense of morality a mile away.

but it doesn't stop Mal from pretending tho.

By the way, what about Benjamin Sisko from DS9? From the very first episode he bullied Quark into staying on the station. He later bullied the Maquis a coupled of times, even go as far as poisoning a planet. I guess you can argue he is just speaking a language that they will understand to get his point across. But yeah, if Sean also thinks Benjamin Sisko is a bully, then i can see where he is coming from, and i guess by that standard, Mal is also a bully when he needs to be.

[missmuffet]

No I don't think he's a Bully. I think he's a leader. He does what he needs to do to protect his people and his ship. The point is that he pretends to be all bossy and mean but he's really not - unless something happens and he needs to be. If he was really a Bully why would Kaylee feel comfortable enough to kiss him on the cheek and say "I love my captain"?

[ThotFullGuy]

This is very interesting discussion. I too scratched my head a little bit at Sean's viewpoint that Mal is a bully. Although I haven't rewatched Firefly recently, I've seen every episode enough to know it fairly well. But, like Solai did, I'm lookng forward to taking another look with the "bully" question specifically in mind.

Here's my take: Malcom Reynolds is, I think, keenly aware of what's required to be an effiective captain of a ship. And moreover, Mal is essentially the captain of an independent small business. Whether he and his crew eats, survives, profits and keeps flying litterally depends on his decisions.

On top of all that, Mal has been burned by the fact that his decisions (and other's) during the war ---of choosing to stick and fight, has cost lives. So he's wary of getting burned that way again.

I don't know of any case in the show where his seemingly "bully"-like actions weren't motivated by the desire to keep Firefly and her people safe and flying. Being a leader means you have to 'kick people's ass' sometimes even when you don't feel like it.

Also, as Joss Whedon remarked on one of the commentary tracks "Mal is an uncomprimising guy."

All that said, Nathan Fillion, sure does know how to play a convincing bully :

[missmuffet]

This is very interesting discussion. I too scratched my head a little bit at Sean's viewpoint that Mal is a bully. Although I haven't rewatched Firefly recently, I've seen every episode enough to know it fairly well. But, like Solai did, I'm lookng forward to taking another look with the "bully" question specifically in mind.

Here's my take: Malcom Reynolds is, I think, keenly aware of what's required to be an effiective captain of a ship. And moreover, Mal is essentially the captain of an independent small business. Whether he and his crew eats, survives, profits and keeps flying litterally depends on his decisions.

On top of all that, Mal has been burned by the fact that his decisions (and other's) during the war ---of choosing to stick and fight, has cost lives. So he's wary of getting burned that way again.

I don't know of any case in the show where his seemingly "bully"-like actions weren't motivated by the desire to keep Firefly and her people safe and flying. Being a leader means you have to 'kick people's ass' sometimes even when you don't feel like it.

Also, as Joss Whedon remarked on one of the commentary tracks "Mal is an uncomprimising guy."

All that said, Nathan Fillion, sure does know how to play a convincing bully :

Well said Thot!

[Solai]

Here's my take: Malcom Reynolds is, I think, keenly aware of what's required to be an effiective captain of a ship. And moreover, Mal is essentially the captain of an independent small business. Whether he and his crew eats, survives, profits and keeps flying litterally depends on his decisions.

On top of all that, Mal has been burned by the fact that his decisions (and other's) during the war ---of choosing to stick and fight, has cost lives. So he's wary of getting burned that way again.

I don't know of any case in the show where his seemingly "bully"-like actions weren't motivated by the desire to keep Firefly and her people safe and flying. Being a leader means you have to 'kick people's ass' sometimes even when you don't feel like it.

Also, as Joss Whedon remarked on one of the commentary tracks "Mal is an uncomprimising guy."

Well spoke sir, well spoke.

Many people when arguing this point fall into the leader/owner trap of saying, "A leader's job is to tell people what to do" which is totally wrong. A leader's job is to build concensus even in the face of complete disagreement. Even a dictator must have the support of his lieutenants otherwise they will turn on him. You can only say, "My way or the high way" so many times before people start saying "no."

For me Mal's worst and finest moments as a Captain occur within 20 minutes of each other. When he tells the crew to Reaver-fy Serenity no one agrees with him. He actually pulls his gun out and says, "this is the way it is." That moment is Mal's lowest point in terms of leadership. If you need to mandate your point and pull a gun then you have failed as a leader. If he was less of a leader the crew would have turned around and left him right then and there, he gave them that out.

They didn't, not one of them. They stayed.

Again a leader can't pull that move often but it is telling how those around the leader react when they do. This of course is followed by Mal's finest moment as he tells the crew, "I am to misbehave" and they in turn support him once again, but this time not out of threat but by choice.

This is why I continue to think highly of Mal. He is flawed. He is not perfect. He makes mistakes but he also tends to learn from them, mostly. He is as real a character as I have seen ever.

[ThotFullGuy]

Many people when arguing this point fall into the leader/owner trap of saying, "A leader's job is to tell people what to do" which is totally wrong. A leader's job is to build concensus even in the face of complete disagreement. Even a dictator must have the support of his lieutenants otherwise they will turn on him. You can only say, "My way or the high way" so many times before people start saying "no."

Yeah, point taken. There's obiviously a wide spectrum of types of leadership that are required in different situations, but you're right. No leader is gonna last long unless they inspire their followers to follow them.

For me Mal's worst and finest moments as a Captain occur within 20 minutes of each other. When he tells the crew to Reaver-fy Serenity no one agrees with him. He actually pulls his gun out and says, "this is the way it is." That moment is Mal's lowest point in terms of leadership. If you need to mandate your point and pull a gun then you have failed as a leader. If he was less of a leader the crew would have turned around and left him right then and there, he gave them that out.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that moment when Mal pulls his gun, wasn't that a little trick played on the audience? In other words, we're shocked (and the Firefly crew is shocked) because we think he's pulling a gun on his people to threaten them, but in fact what he was doing was getting his gun ready so he could walk over and shoot that almost-dead reaver?

Maybe there's no difference really and Mal intentionally was trying to communicate an "I'm not fraking around" message.

[hansioux]

On top of all that, Mal has been burned by the fact that his decisions (and other's) during the war ---of choosing to stick and fight, has cost lives. So he's wary of getting burned that way again.

yeah, i think that's the thing that haunts him the most.

[Solai]

Yeah, point taken. There's obiviously a wide spectrum of types of leadership that are required in different situations, but you're right. No leader is gonna last long unless they inspire their followers to follow them.

To be clear, I wasn't saying that was the argument you were making. Quite the opposite, I should have said specifically I respected the fact you didn't fall into the trap.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that moment when Mal pulls his gun, wasn't that a little trick played on the audience? In other words, we're shocked (and the Firefly crew is shocked) because we think he's pulling a gun on his people to threaten them, but in fact what he was doing was getting his gun ready so he could walk over and shoot that almost-dead reaver?

Maybe there's no difference really and Mal intentionally was trying to communicate an "I'm not fraking around" message.

I think you are right on both counts. You are right he didn't pull it out as a threat, but it doesn't really matter. It punctuates the point he is making that he is deadly serious and willing to stand behind his assertion. Gunning down the Alliance pilot in cold blood puts a bow on the point.

[LordCorbin]

Mal definitely operates with a 'take it or leave it' mentality and when hes made a decision the crew can follow or get out of the way. By that point he'll brook no dissension, simple as that. His delivery, I believe, is what sets Sean off. Theres no hand holding, no 'we are all in this together so let me explain where Im coming from.' Hes not a bully in the traditional sense of employing force to achieve some personal empowerment. A woman like Zoe wouldnt have followed him all those years were that the case.